SUMMARY DAY FOUR
6 April 2000
Breakout Session One: Integrated Approaches
Rapporteurs: Randy Thaman and Henry Taiki
UNDP Climate Change Initiatives for the Asia-Pacific Region and Related
Capacity Building Activities - Fiu Mataese Elisara-Laulu and Tom
Twining-Ward
The presentation was in 3 parts:
1. Overall UNDP Climate Change Initiatives
2. UNDP and Climate Change in the Pacific
3. Climate change and Capacity Building Activities
Part I: UNDP Climate Change Initiatives
UNDP is the world's largest provider of multilateral assistance for
sustainable human development. The main objectives of UNDP initiatives
in the area of climate change are:
(a) To identify, finance and carry out "win-win" programmes and policies
that stimulates maximise sustainable development.
(b) To provide technical backstopping and capacity building to
developing countries and utilise the new mechanisms under the UNFCCC.
(c) To build network partnership with the UN systems, international
organisations, NGOs, academics and the private sectors to raise
awareness and initiate dialogue on climate change.
Climate change is an integrated part of UNDP global sustainable human
development and energy sector activities entailing for activities
(a) National sustainable development activities (energy and forestry).
(b) Activities for implementing UNFCCC.
(c) Capacity building for new mechanisms under the UNFCCC.
(d) International dialogue and policy development (on-going UNDP
programme and projects support effort to mitigate GHG emissions under
one or more of the above).
Within the context of UNFCCC (Kyoto Protocol) UNDP work on climate
change issues, both at national and regional levels:
(a) 1992 - 1999, UNDP's Regional Bureau of Asia and the Pacific (RBAP)
committed about USD860 million (IPF, Regional Funds and GEF) for
climate change related issues in Asia/Pacific region with main focus on
energy and energy conservation
(b) About 65 climate change related projects are currently at different
planning stages
Part II: UNDP and climate change in the Pacific
* PMI/90/002
* Capacity building
* PICCAP
* PICCAP "Top Up"
* REBARE
* Commitment to continue assistance under the Pacific Regional Framework
Strategy under development during this conference.
PICCAP
Two PICs (PNG and Tonga) have implemented their own climate change
enabling activities projects.
PICCAP "Top-Up"
PICCAP has build substantial capacity building, but capacity should be
further improved and strengthen and momentum maintained.
PICs requested additional USD1 million to extend PICCAP for another year
and is currently processed by UNDP.
Removing barriers for adaptation of renewable energies in the Pacific.
As part of the renewable mitigation strategies under PICCAP, PICs
decided to persue the development of a renewable energy technology
project through UNDP Second Phase of PICCAP under the Pacific Regional
Framework Strategy. UNDP is committed to continue the support for
climate change activities in the region well into the millennium, and to
assist the countries, through GEF in developing a Second Phase of
PICCAP.
Espen Ronneberg - UN Department for Economic and social Affairs/Small
Islands Developiing States Unit.
* Stressed the need to develop the capacity to identify adaptations to
climate change, climate vulnerability and sea-level rise in SIDS, and
the need for assistance in this respect.
* In terms of current capabilities, there have been vulnerability and
needs assessments, and most countries have a good understanding of their
vulnerability and the impacts, few have developed the ability to
implement adaptive strategies.
* It was stressed that due to the diversity and heterogeneity of SIDS
that there needed to be a range of options and strategies for
adaptation.
* SIDS delegations to UNFCCC meetings are often small and the membership
changes; because of this, there is often an absence of institutional
memory and continuity. Continuity of AOSIS positions has, however, been
strengthened by representation by regional institutions at international
meeting.
* There have been problems with excessive burdens on small numbers of
staff of national and international environmental agencies that have
many other responsibilities, and problems related to the downsizing of
environmental departments and a weakening of the overall capacity in
both the general area of environment and more specifically with respect
to input into the climate change debate and negotiations, and
implemetation of adaptation programs.
* Assistance programs need to be established to strengthen national
programs, to establish and strengthen networks of managers and climate
change officials throughout the region, to establish appropriate
research capacity
* The role of the UN SIDS Unit will be to strengthen relationships and
act as a liaison with the FCCC Secretariat and other relevant UN
agencies, continue liaison with AOSIS and to strengthen a programmatic
approach to assist SIDS.
* The SIDS Net, although working well in the past, is now seeking new
funding, to strengthen it role in disseminating information about small
island states.
Marcel Boisard - UNITAR
* UNITAR has 125 different training programmes globally, many of which
have dealt with environmental issues in areas under the major UN
Conventions (e.g., climate change, biodiversity, etc.), but their main
area of focus has been in the area of chemical waste and pollution.
* One of their main areas of emphasis is linking science and policy. One
problem is that policy has to be made at the national level whereas
science is often carried out and information held at the international
level. There is thus a need to bring these two together.
* There is also the problem that good scientific information often takes
decades to acquire, whereas policy must be made now.
* Although partnership and collaboration in the South Pacific region is
very strong , collaboration needs to be strengthened with international
bodies, because they are the bodies that often have the up-to-date
scientific information that is needed as a basis for informed policy
based on good science. It was stressed that in this sense dependency is
not bad; we are all dependent in some positive way.
* In terms of capacity building, it was stressed that there was a need
for national assessment of their capacity building and training needs
based on consultation between all stakeholders (government, private
industry and NGOs)
* It was also stressed that there is a critical need to strengthen our
negotiating skills. It was stressed that scientists can pay a very
important role in helping to prepare briefs, set agendas', etc, and that
scientists must provide the scientific underpinnings or lawyers,
politicians, economists and other persons who often head negotiation
teams.
* It was also stressed that SIDS have very unique problems related to
the CCC, and that the Kyoto Protocol is not really satisfying their
needs, is the best instrument that we have at the time, and that we must
have good negotiators who can maximise the benefits obtained by SIDS
under the Framework.
Iosefa Maiava - Forum Secretariat
* It was stressed that there is a need for holistic integrated
approaches to develop which include whole government and whole region
approaches. It was stressed that we need a clear decision making
structure.
* The Forum, as the political and economic forum of the independent
states of the Pacific Ocean, has an interest in everything that has
relevance to development, and has had a very long-term interest in
climate change issues.
* It was stressed that there is a very strong system of regional
organisations (e.g., Forum Secretariat, SPREP, SOPAC, USP, SPC, TCSP,
FFA, PIDP), and that there is a coordinating mechanism CROP (Council of
Regional Organizations in the Pacific), with representation by the heads
of the regional organizations.
* CROP has established Working Groups on Land-based Resources, Marine
Resources, Trade and Private Sector, Agriculture, Information
Technology, Gender.
* The Forum has also been involved with SPREP and other regional
organisations the International Waters Programme under the GEF, and
coordinated oceans policy for the region will be the focus of the CROP
marine resources working group.
* CROP has the capacity to involve any specialists.
* If we want something to be country-driven and owned, we must include
all interest groups, government, private sector and NGOs in the country.
* There is a difference between supporting regional organizations and
providing support for regional mechanisms.
* It was also stressed that one complementing factor is that many
subsidies, including subsidies on technology transfer, fisheries
subsidies, etc., might be challenged and rendered illegal under the WTO.
Thus we must know what our trade negotiators are doing. Because of this
we need to consider the establishment of a "Green fund" that could be
uncoupled from the WTO areas of responsibilities, so that such
programmes and subsidies cannot be challenged.
* In summary, to have a truly integrated policy, we must work together
to develop this integrated framework.
Discussion
* It was stressed that whereas in the past all AOSIS submissions were
circulated to all the members, this had ceased and had in fact eroded an
integrated approach. The SIDS rep stated that they would discuss the
possibility of how they could improve their ability to inform member
states of their current positions and negotiations.
* It was stressed that although capacity building was needed at the
regional and national levels, it was perhaps even more urgently needed
at the local levels in both local communities and NGOs who are actively
working to implement initiatives in a wide range of areas related to
climate change and its potential impacts (e.g., agriculture, fisheries,
environment, forestry). It was also suggested that NGOs should be more
involved in conferences such as this. It was suggested that the
involvement of NGOs and local stakeholders could best be involved in
workshops that would be held at the local level.
* It was also stressed that there are advantages of the focusing
capacity building at the nationals level in that it is easier to involve
all stakeholders (government, private sector, NGOs), and that capacity
building priorities should be identified by the stakeholders in terms of
what they want or need to prepare them to effectively address. This is
made even more important because different related activities may be
addressed by many different agencies that all need to be included in
capacity building exercises, which is very difficult if
meetings/training workshops are held at the international level.
* It was stressed, however, that it was not an either or problem, and
that there are some activities that are best carried out nationally and
some that can be done best done at the regional or international levels
Tom Wichman - Cook Islands (Technology for mitigation)
* During the last five years, the Cook Islands have imported an average
of eight million New Zealand dollars of fossil fuel into the country on
a yearly basis. This has resulted in 47 Gg of actual C02 emissions. The
Cook Islands is in fact the highest importer of fossil fuels (on a per
population basis) within the Pacific region.
* A current global concern is the excess of Green house gases in the
atmosphere. This excess is caused by human activities. In the Pacific,
the main contributor to CO2 emissions is the use of fossil fuels. In the
Cook Island the main sources of emissions are from jet fuel and diesel.
Most energy is produced using diesel generators.
* The types of options that the Cook Islands have followed to address
these issues include: replacement of all worn out generators, ensuring
that all generators are running at efficient levels, encourage the use
of renewable energy or hybrid power generation.
* One example of renewable energy use in the Cook Islands can be found
in the Northern group island of Pukapuka where a Cook Islands Government
project has seen the island become almost completely solarised, with the
only exception being a backup diesel generator for the hospital.
* A successful example of increasing efficiency can be found in our
island of Mitiaro, where under Forum Secretariat funding every
household replaced incandescent light bulbs with more efficient compact
fluorescent bulbs, thus reducing the consumption of energy by 60 - 80%,
which helped to reduce our total emissions and resulted in real savings
in electrical bills to the Mitiaro consumer.
* The Pacific Islands are often used as a dumping ground for obsolete,
inefficient, and out of date appliances or equipment. Both donors and
recipients need to be made aware - if they are going to donate or
receive anything, they need to make sure it is appropriate and
up-to-date. In order to increase energy efficiency an attempt has been
made to look at the standards of electrical imports to the Cook
Islands. For example, refrigerators made for New Zealand use are not
appropriate for use in the tropics.A regional effort would also ensure
that donors do not simply look for other islands to dump these goods.=20
Together we need to ensure that both imported and donated goods meet set
standards of efficiency.
* An example of locally developed appropriate technology is a Coconut
Oil Expeller. This machine produces fresh coconut oil and can also
produce oil from copra. At the moment, copra is shipped out of the Cook
Islands to Tahiti or Samoa to be processed. The return to growers,
therefore, is very low. This machine allows oil to be produced on the
island, increasing the economic return to growers. Not only does this
machine offer an alternative energy source to diesel, but it also offers
sources of employment, import substitution and income generation to Cook
Islanders. This low cost technology is suited for any coconut producing
island.
* In the Atiu Hostel the Cook Islands is testing a hot water heater,
which uses a heat pump, and sources its energy from the air. A normal
solar heater only heats water when the sun is shining. This heater,
however, is capable of heating water 24 hours a day, even during rainy
periods or the evenings, because its energy is drawn from the air. As
long as the temperature is above 0 degrees Celsius, there is energy
available in the air that can be transferred to heat water.
* In summary, it was stressed that there is room for improvement in
energy production, efficiency and technology. If these improvements are
adopted there will be a reduction in the emissions of GHG's and an
economic saving in fossil fuel imports. Although the emissions of GHG in
the Pacific islands are very small, we should endeavour to reduce them,
not only due to the climatic impacts, but also for economic reasons.
Michael Ariki -Solomon Islands (Gaps, Needs and Capacity Vulnerability
-Building in Vulnerability and Assessment in Solomon Islands)
* It was stressed that vulnerability due to climate change can't be
separated from social and environmental conditions, including population
growth, changes in food production systems, overexploitation of marine
and forestry resources and land tenure.
* The sensitive sectors that were identified include subsistence and
commercial agriculture, human health, marine resources and natural
resources.
* Needs include a national policy framework, capacity building and
institutional strengthening, and public awareness and education, so that
the public can actively participate in decisionmaking
* There Gaps are gaps related to lack of understanding of climate change
scenarios, potential impacts, current land use practices and changes
related to climate change, understanding of erosional and sedimentation
processes, on forests and mangrove covers and their present conditions,
and population and migration figures, projections for changes in climate
and sea level, frequency of El Ni=F1o and tropical cyclones, impacts of
variation of climate and current changes on marine resources,
Joseph Konno - Federated States of Micronesia (National Communication of
V & A Assessment)
* Studies have been carried out in the many of the islands of FSM which
focused mainly on coastal areas. The projections that were used were
that temperature will increase, rainfall will decrease, droughts will
increase, seal-level will rise according to IPCC predictions, and
extreme events will increase.
* Atolls and low-lying coastal areas area already very vulnerable which
is made worse by human environmental degradation.
* The water systems on small islands will be particularly vulnerable,
and FSM was declared a disaster area during the most recent El Ni=F1o
event and the associated drought.
* There was also concern over the loss of taro production and breadfruit
during the last El Ni=F1o events.
* Areas where information is needed is on the effects of El Ni=F1o on tun=
a
stocks, which showed to move outside of FSM's EEZ.
* Adaptive options include the need for more information, including the
documentation and use of traditional adaptive strategies.
* There is a lack of basic data and lack of access to some technical
data held by overseas bodies
* There has been a loss of capacity due to government downsizing.
* It was stressed at the recent National Economic Summit in the
promotion of sustainable development that climate change was seen as a
priority issue.
* Challenges included the need to implement existing policies, the
integration of climate concerns into the national and state economic
plans, and the need to build capacity.
Bill Hare - Greenpeace
* It was stressed that caution needed to be taken in terms of granting
credits for the establishment of carbon sinks, in the form of the
protection of existing forests and in the establishment of plantation
forests because these actions may actually allow industrialized nations
to continue polluting, and that the granting of credits do not address
the root causes of global warming and may even lead to deforestation in
the form of the replacement of slow-growing native forests with fast
growing plantation forests.
* Forest themselves are likely to experience significant damages as a
consequence of rapid climate change, e.g., dieback of Amazon forest
* There was also concern as to whether the sinks can really be
permanent, and who pays or has the liability if the sink goes up in
smoke.
* The biodiversity or conservation potential of sinks may be overstated
for a variety of reasons. Because of perverse incentive where because
natural forest sequester carbon rather slowly, this is often an
incentive to replace natural forests with plantation forests, the
establishment of sinks might lead of a transplantation of an activity of
forest degradation to another place, and sinks might expand, not reduce
, the ecological footprint of developed nations on the planet.
* Establishment of sinks may lead to the displacement of landowners and
their access to the forest as their lifeline.
* CDM sinks do not lead to the reduction of emission and related health
risks at the source.
* Forest generated carbon offsets are likely to weaken the pressure for
changes in the energy sector.
* CDM sink credits are in effect not gained for clean energy and
transport systems technologies in developing countries.
* Companies are proposing to use genetically modified tree plantation,
e.g. Peugot are clearing large areas of tropical rainforest in an effort
to plant fast growing ecalyptus species to get credit for a carbon
offset.
* What is really needed are projects that are environmentally sound and
sustainable and projects that really assist the transitions to low or no
carbon energy sources.
Discussion
* It was suggested that if we really want to protect people against
global warming the CDM should be used to give people credits or finance
for coastal reforestation projects, because there are few real
opportunities for PICs to benefit from the CDM
* It was suggested that plantation forests may play a great role in
reducing emissions, but the reality is that we are talking about the
Kyoto Protocol within which when someone gets credits for establishing a
sink some developed country gets credits to release more greenhouse
gases.
* In response to the questions as to whether there are restriction about
were and how sinks can be established and whether there are restrictions
to those projects that replace native forests with plantation forests,
it was reported that there are no regulations at present. In response to
the question of whether credits could be given for coastal reforestation
projects, although there would undoubtedly be benefits, it would not
solve the basic problem of reducing emission so that climate change can
be minimized in the future so would probably.
* In response to a question about the feasibility of wind power in the
Cook Islands, it was suggested that in the northern Cooks, which are
near the equator, there is little potential, but in the Southern Cooks,
where the Tradewinds blow more consistently (e.g., in Rarotonga and
Mangaia,) there is greater potential
* It was suggested that there is also a need to strengthen GIS
capabilities to document changes, e.g., in Palau, where they was a moss
of 30% of the forest cover during the 1997-98 drought and loss 1300 of
their taro patches, affecting 30% of the population in the past two
years.
Thursday April 6, Breakout Session Two
Vulnerability and Adaptation, Capacity Building and Country Reports
(Tuvalu, Vanuatu, Marshall Islands)
Chair: Nakibae Teuatabo, SPREP support: Chalapan Kaluwin, Rapp: Nancy
Lewis and Ian Goodwin
Presentation 1: Leone Limalevu - World Bank Study for Fiji
This was an integrated economic impact study that included impact
assessment and economic valuation and a capacity building component. A
number of organizations were involved including: PICCAP, WB, IGCI,
SPREP, SOPAC, CCIERO, and others. The focus was Viti Levu.
A large team had to be assembled in a relatively short time including:
scientists, computer modellers, various sector specialists, economists,
stakeholders and policy makers.=20
The output (valuation of impact) is intended to provide information to
the public and to policy makers on the relative magnitude or cost of
possible impacts of climate change so that decisions could be made to
act or delay action. The output has to be concise, not too small in
scope or too technical, visual and use the appropriate language.=20
(Graphics prize: great cartoon of man drowning flashed across the
screen!)
Conclusions:=20
Studies should be country driven.
All should include capacity building and training.
Must ensure adequate human and financial resources.
Ownership and intellectual property issues need to be clarified at onset
because of multiple partners.
Partners must be committed to capacity building and technology transfer
to the national team.
Awareness of imposed time-frame is critical. Outputs are government
documents and time must be allowed for government to vet.
Prioritize the selection of experts; the choice being national,
regional, then international.
All parameters that are used to build impact models should be clear so
that there is an understanding of the limitations of the assumptions.
Must also ensue that good data on vulnerability and adaptation are
available.=20
Total monetized loss $313,935 million -10 per cent of GDP, but total
damage non monetized is more than that - 25% of GDP.
Paul Kench Univ. of Waikato, Recent Modelling Developments for V & A
Assessnent in the Pacific
Presented the PacClim Model - an integrated assessment model of Pacific
climate impacts on a fictitious island developed for PICCAP. They have
developed a prototype for Fiji, FijiClim. (There was demonstration of
this after the session).
The model integrates global mean temperature and sea level projections,
national and regional climate change scenario generator and sectoral
impact models. It can capture information from various GCM's. Uses the
MAGICC output for temperature and sea level rise. Sectors include:
coastal, water, agriculture and health in user defined models.=20
It can test different scenarios and project into future and then feed
into sector imapct models. It also includes sensitivity analysis. An
example was given of coastal impacts.
Model outputs can underpin policy development and planning for
adaptation to climate change. They are useful for landuse planning in a
broader environmental management context.=20
Future Needs: Technical development and testing of impact models,
incorporate new developments into IAM. For better policy linkages,
capacity of end users must be enhanced.
Nelson Rarua, Vanuatu asked if the model could be made available for the
rest of the island countries. Apparently it is a issue of time and
financial resources.
Mere Pulea, The Role of the University of the South Pacific in Climate
Change in the Context of Sustainable Development.
USP is a regional institution owned by 12 regional governments all of
whom have representation on Council.
In the Pacific the adverse effects of climate change and seal level rise
are critically important. Pacific nations have been negotiating national
and regional treaties since the 1980's and they have been very involved
with the climate change convention but at the national level there are
often competing issues that seem to take precedence. There is also a
lack of wide public awareness of climate change issues as indicated in
this meeting.
With respect to capacity building, USP's role is in teaching. As the
regional university it is the main source of human resource development
for the Pacific. Many of the participants in this meeting are USP
graduates. Dr. Pulea presented several tables of schools/programs at USP
with relevant subcomponents, e.g., School of Pure and Applied Science,
School of Social and Economic Development, School of Agriculture, School
of Law, Marine Studies Program. A large number of degrees, diplomas and
certificates are offered.
USP is also a major research institution with a number of organized
research units, e.g., SPAS, SSED, SOH, IAS, SAO/IRETA
Last May a Post grad certificate in vulnerability and adaptation
assessment was approved. USP also has an advisory group for the
environment to advise the Administration. =20
A Pacific Center for Environment and Sustainable Development was
approved in 1999.
It will focus on vulnerability and assessment, conservation and=20
environmental science post graduate certificate, and a climate change
and sea level rise project.
USP hosts START Oceania and the Fiji chapter of the Human Dimensions
Project.
USP has just opened USP 2000 - a telecom facility with video and audio
links to 12 countries that greatly enhances their teaching capacity.
Biman Prasad, Fiji's New Sustainable Development Bill: Implications for
the adaptation and level of political response to climate change.
The document is complete and now in Parliament. It is a comprehensive
document and compares well with international laws and the legislation
nominally adopted in developed countries. There are implications for
the cost of implementation. While there is no mention of climate
change, it is comprehensive and indicative of public and political will.
It is noteworthy that while climate change was included in the initial
document, it was not it the final version. This is indicative of lack
of national awareness and other political priorities. The original bill
was seen to be too long and complicated, it is an important start and
can and will be modified in the future.
In accounting, the expenditure needed to restore environmental capital
and to avert the destruction of environmental capital must be included.
Countries should have an economic policy unit to work with scientists.
Jon Barnett, Investigating the Policy Problem of Uncertainty=20
Uncertainty is a central issue in climate change research and key with
respect to policy and decision making. There is a considerable body of
work on uncertainty.
The uncertainty of both impacts and of solutions presents significant
policy challenges. It is critical that we study uncertainty in its own
right and consider uncertainty with respect to both physical and social
impacts as well as policy responses.
Where impacts can not be anticipated. Resilience must be built into the
system.
The implications of resilience for policy include:
Monitoring the changes in social and ecological indicators
Public participation
Adaptive management
Human resource development
Assess social vulnerability=20
In discussion it was noted that politicians make decisions with
uncertainty all the time - the issue may be more critical for
international negotiations.
Nelson Rarua, Vanuatu Climate and Sea Level Change Issues and concerns:
Vanuatu=20
Vanuatu sits in the heart of the cyclone zone. This has significant
implications for many sectors of the economy. Some of the islands are
new volcanic islands without protective barrier reefs.
Progress: Initial national communication submitted and a national
implementation strategy developed.
Needs: Awareness - education of schools and rural communities - and
policy makers; data collection network; GHC emissions; vulnerability
information. Human resource capacity needs to be developed, skills,
software and data collection and analysis. Climate change activities
also need to be mainstreamed and gain government recognition.
Encourage PI countries to sign and ratify the Kyoto Protocol and
reiterate the position on absolute emissions reductions by Annex 1
Parties and support the speedy implementation of Articles 4.8 and 4.9 of
UNFCCC.
The Framework will and should have an international impact.
Lee Jacklick, Republic of the Marshall Islands, Adaptations and Response
Options to Climate and Environmental Changes Water Resources in the
Marshall Islands
Water resources in the Marshall Islands are dependent on infiltration
and the G-H lens, rainwater harvest from the airport runway (Majuro -50
M gallon capacity) and catchment from private and public buildings.=20
Resources and options on outer island are extremely limited. A 1992
study highlighted the vulnerability.=20
What are the response options to accelerated sea level rise? Two primary
options are protection and accommodation. On Majuro most protection
attempts have not had an EIA and are inappropriate. Traditional
strategies might be more appropriate but none have been identified.=20
Hillia Vavae, Tuvalu, Brief Highlights on climate change and sea level
activities in Tuvalu
Tuvalu has a NTF gauge and staff have participated in NTF training.
Communication is not always easy. The 80 months of data (7 and a half
years) suggest that there has been an average a negative 14.5 mm annual
change. This would equate to a total 11.12 cm decline over that
period. However local observations -and local people - know that
coastal land has been lost on the coast and some small islands have
disappeared. How do we explain this?? Two El Ninos occurred during this
period. Tuvalu is having serious water problems. The situation in
Tuvalu is better during El Nino cycles.=20
What are the options for the people of Tuvalu??=20
In the discussion session it was noted that there have been two and a
half days of science, but less time allowed for substantive discussion
by Pacific Island participants.
Rarotonga, Cook Islands
****************************************************************
To post a submission by email at climate-newswire@sidsnet.org
To unsubscribe, email to majordomo@sidsnet.org with the message:
unsubscribe climate-newswire
To receive updates via email, send an email to majordomo@sidsnet.org with the message:
subscribe climate-newswire
No SUBJECTS required either case.
Brought to you on the SMALL Island Developing States Network: http://www.sidsnet.org
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Wed Apr 26 2000 - 18:13:39 EDT